Hello, and welcome to The Business of Executive Coaching podcast. I'm your host, Ellie Scarf, and I am so delighted to be here with Cathy Hockey. Now, Cathy is the sort of coach that you want on your team, especially if you're an organization that is purpose-driven. Cathy has 40 years of professional experience, including 20 years in the not-for-profit sector, where she has launched a sustainable social enterprise.
She was the CEO of an NDIS provider and so much more. She has the runs on the board and has done the work. But beyond that, Cathy, I think, is a bit of a secret weapon for her clients because she coaches, consults, facilitates, does strategy work. And because of her deeply empathetic and kind approach, she is able to challenge and help organizations step up while also feeling like they are deeply supported by her.
Every conversation with Cathy reveals even more depth and stories, and I'm so delighted to have her with us today. Welcome, Cathy. Thank you, Ellie. Wow, that is quite an introduction, and I really appreciate it. Well, all very true. I know. Even the- Feel like I know you now 40 years, 40 years of- I know ... of career.
Wow, that's, yeah. I know. So yeah, sometimes I'm like, maybe we just say Do I go there? ... some decades. Yeah. Some decades. That could be anything. Could. Yeah. Look, Cathy, so happy to have you here. And just to start, would you be happy to introduce yourself and then dive in a little bit into what brings you to coaching at this point in your life?
So, yes, Ellie, thank you. I'm Cathy Hockey, and I love working in the for-purpose sector and with people, and I think that's I've, over the last 20 years particularly, I've really discovered my calling in that, being of service to people and enabling and empowering others. So that's where I'm coming from at the moment.
And when you say corporate to coach, I feel like it's colorful career to coach, because I've had so many- Yes different types of roles over the years. And when we do say 40 years, it's because I started very early. Yes. am owning the fact that I ran out of school at age 17- and into the workforce. I just wanted to get out there and- yeah
be adulting, and I, as soon as I stepped into the workforce, I was like, "Yeah, this is what I love." It really grounded me. So And do I remember right, Cathy, that you ran right into a bank? Yeah. And I love that, because there are not many 17-year-olds out of there who find their first way in a bank. So tell us a little bit about what were you like as a 17-year-old.
Well, yes. I wasn't behaving at school, and as I said really enjoyed getting into some structure, and I think that work was where I needed to be. Right. And absolutely loved. Stepped into a junior role, but I just really remember the chequebook drawers and filing chequebooks and customer service.
And reading microfiche and all of that stuff. Oh, yes. It was like a whole new world of excitement. And as I've done throughout my career, I sort of went from junior through to a branch manager- Wow ... in, in the time there, and I was there for I was a branch manager at 25, which was pretty- Very young. Yeah.
Pretty young. And a lot of responsibility when you're locking up- the safe at night and all that money, and- Yep. Balancing everything and approving overdrafts. So I learnt a lot in that time. And it's really hard to remember, 'cause it is quite a long time ago. Yes. But it was definitely very much my early foray into leadership and feeling like I was managing something- yeah
leading something. And I remember one of my bosses said to me, really you've got this, like, analytical and logical and creative brain, like it's all going on." And things like that, when people say things like that, they stick with you over the years. Yeah. And I really appreciated that.
So yeah, I had a enjoyed that time in my career, and it lasted all the way through to when I had kids. But then, of course, once I had kids and I tried to go back part-time, I'd been a manager and I couldn't be a manager anymore back in those days. There wasn't- Oh my God the opportunity to Yeah, of course adjust roles or anything.
And so I was back being a teller, and I was like this isn't that exciting." And so then I pivoted. So it's my first pivot in my career where I think actually my husband coached me a little bit during this, because he was really trying to get out of me what I loved about my job. And anyway, he was a mechanical engineer and he suggested doing drafting, and so I went off and studied architectural drafting and design.
And- I didn't know this, Cathy. Didn't you? No, this is a new one for me. There, there's always surprises. So I did that for six years. I had my own business- as a sole trader, but it was very different to the type of business that we're talking about today. Yeah. Because I had a deliverable that was delivered by the end of the day.
Yeah. I was doing floor plans for real estate agents- in the end, and it was great while the kids were little because I would go out and measure units and houses and apartments, and then at night after they were tucked into bed, I could get on the computer and draw up- Yes ... and send off my finished designs.
So that was quite lucrative, actually. But then six years into that, I really missed being in a team and being, having a shared purpose. And I had another pivot- where we'd been for a great big trip around Australia camping with the kids for four months, and I fell in love with the vegetation, the native species, the landscape.
And so then I studied conservation and land management. And yeah, and I thought I was gonna be like, I don't know if you remember Ranger Stacey? Yes, I do remember Ranger Stacey. That's very Australian for our, our- Yeah ... US or UK folks listening in. I think I- An Australian... Yeah. What would you call- Park ranger in a way, maybe?
Yeah, a, not a bush ranger, but not in the Ned Kelly way. More of a parks ranger. No. Yeah, parks ranger. And so I imagined myself out there with the little uniform and looking after our national parks. And then somebody that I was volunteering with in council said, "Oh, there's this organization looking for someone to head up and build this pilot program in bush regeneration, supporting pe- people with disability, with intellectual disabilities."
And I was like, "Oh, that sounds interesting." Had no experience of disability at all, and I got the job. I think I really talked up my management skills from- ... the bank. The bank, yeah. More confused. And I stepped into that thinking I was going into something in environmental work, which it was. But it really was the pivotal moment for me going into the disability, the not-for-profit sector.
Which I then stayed in for, yeah, coming up close to 20 years now. So it's, that was all of my I don't know how I got there, but I got there. Yeah. You sort of found your people or your place or your- yeah ... it sounds like you're quite a multi-passionate person, which I think a lot of coaches would identify with.
But finding that, where do we wanna channel our, all these skills and talents that we've acquired over the years is sometimes- difficult. And Yeah ... it sounds like you found it. Yeah. And so then, so that's halfway through my career. And so then for the... So I was handed this, like, project plan, these six employees with disability who needed support, who I was supporting, and there was funding to get us through the first sort of 18 months of my wage, but I had to get work for them.
And then I stayed there for 10 years, built it into a sustainable social enterprise, and worked with... I just wanna touch on we talk about high-performing teams. Yeah. This was a group of people with diverse support needs. And we built a really high-performing team in that environment. Because we ended up, we were delivering on our contracts. We were, our staff retention was incredible. Absenteeism was, like, so low.
Yeah. And engagement high. There was joy, vulnerability, and challenge in the workplace, and we were making a social impact as well. And I think it came down to, well, I believe it came down to the fact that we were working with each person on what was important to them, what they valued-
what their strengths were, and what they needed, what support they needed to do their very best. And that way of supporting people flowed right through that time, my time as a leader, and then into coaching. Because of that, then when I came to coaching, it was like, this is exactly what we're doing.
What people value- what their strengths are and what supports them to do well. Yeah. And when you can do that, you can build high-performing teams, high-performing individuals, people who are well. Love that. Yeah. I love that. And- And I came across in one of my roles, which was innovation commercialization, and there was this idea that we design for what seem to be these limited use cases, right?
So it might, working with people in this space who may... y- you may assume they don't represent everywhere else because of the, the nature of disability. But in fact, work we do in this space is actually even more applicable because it's more accessible, it's more adaptable, it's more open to people of all types. I love it. Yeah, absolutely.
And that, have you heard of the curb cut effect? No, tell me. Which takes that.So the curbs that we have in, on the street Yes that are cut out, and so they Okay.were originally designed for wheelchairs. Yes. But then they benefit people with prams, people with suitcases, people with trolleys.
So it's that same Yep, yep. idea and concept. Even people who can't manage a big step. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And so things are designed for people with disabilities or a minority group, and then they're much more broadly- Absolutely ... widely used, and the whole world benefits from those things.
And yeah, that's exactly how I feel, is what I learned in that time has really helped me to lead and coach- and facilitate along the way. So during the time, in the first six months that I was running the social enterprise, I experienced a trauma in our family. We had... I had a very close cousin who was like a sister growing up, and unfortunately she was a victim of a homicide.
Oh. And that, holding that- trauma within the family and myself was really challenging to hold that and then come to work and support people at work. And yeah, it was just for quite a few years I suffered from PTSD, and luckily in Australia we do have fantastic support systems that help victims and family victims through these horrific circumstances.
And but I think that supporting people with disability and also going through that trauma and navigating all of that really shaped me, and I think it's something that I, is part of my story. I do wanna honor it. Yeah. I don't often, very, I don't think I've ever sort of gone public with that, and it's not something that I-share with clients, but it's just there.
It's in me. And- Yeah. it, yeah. And Helps ... I do see, and I'm curious on your take on this, Cathy, which is that there is often an experience of people who go into helping professions, particularly coaching, also- counseling and therapy, which is that we are often drawn to this work because at some point it was the work that we needed.
Yeah. Or it was the work that allowed us to lean into this purpose, more deeply purposeful- place inside ourselves. Is that how you see that affecting how you've become a coach? I, yeah, I see it, if I go back to those early days, and I think that I was experiencing the broad range of humanness, from the very bad to the amazingly good.
One day to the next, it would flip-flop. And so that experience of raw human emotion, in all aspects of my life, really influenced me, but I think you're right that There's something about wanting to be of service, to help, to surround yourself with people who want to grow and learn about themselves and- yeah
develop. There's something really cathartic and healing about that- And I think and also I think there's the capacity, it's not a capacity that we would ever choose to develop, but the capacity to hold that full spectrum of emotion and experience for those people we work with- is something that we often develop through those experiences that we wish we never had.
But Of course it's something that we bring to the work we do regardless, right? Yeah. Just like, yeah, we bring ourselves wherever we go. Is that what the, the saying is? Yeah. Yeah, and I think the, like a lot of people that have been on my teams or people that I coach, comment on how they feel safe or calm with me, and- yes
they feel that I create this area of sort of trust, and I think that must come from the experiences that I've had. And that I don't understand everybody's trauma. I would never try to speak the scientific No. Anytime I try to, I just get it all wrong. But I just, there's that felt sense of knowing when somebody needs you to just hold the space.
Step back, step forward. It's very- hard to pinpoint, but- I guess, yeah, that experience has helped me develop that. Yeah, and I assume in a lot of the places you work now there's a lot of people who have experience of, if not major trauma, then complex, ongoing trauma- of microtrauma, of all of that sort of thing, so your ability to hold that is pretty important. You're right that, like a lot of people that I coach that are in the for-purpose sector, they have come for a specific reason. Yeah. And it's usually a personal story.
So yeah, perhaps that's why I'm drawn to working with them. There's a great book, and it's called the, I'm just looking at it now, it's called The Drama of Being a Child by Alice Miller.
And I always think I've decided at one point that I was going to become a psychotherapist, and did my training and then coaching, which was a bigger, better fit for me, but- this book is all about how our personal stories impact our desire to do this type of work, and yeah
and it's fascinating. Yeah. So anyone listening in- Yeah ... new pathways. So- Yeah ... how did you sort of stay engaged with your career and moving forward through what must have been an incredibly difficult time? It was that sense of other people being reliant on me- and needing me, and probably a inflated sense of, "Oh, nobody else can do what I'm doing."
Yeah. "I have to do it." Which we need to have a bit of that. And yeah, it was a balance. It, I've got so much joy out of working Yeah ... in that, with that group, with those people. And you get so much more than you give when you're working- Of course for purpose and- with people who are purposeful, and yeah, brilliant.
So, and I guess I should probably just quickly finish the rest of my career story- Yeah, sure ... because we're only partway through. But I did that for 10 years, then I moved to a larger charity just to get a sense of, this has been very small environment, so just to get a sense of what roles- come together to make things happen, and learn a little bit more of the corporate side of- Yeah charity space.
Then I was very happy there, and about to head up a new department, and then the CEO role suddenly became available at the parent organization where I'd been running the social enterprise.
And I had never really had ambitions for being a CEO, but I think that helper part of me- clicked in again, because it was, there was a situation where it was in a pretty, like some dire straits in terms of staffing and culture, [00:17:00] financial, everything.
It was also smack bang in the middle of COVID, which is not the best time- Oh ... to go and become a CEO of a disability service provider. Oh, no. But I just couldn't turn away from it, and- Yeah ... all the red flags were waving at me, but I just jumped in, and I think that was a bit of the rebel coming out in me again. Like, "No, I'm just gonna do it."
And anyway I went in, and really glad that I did. It was an incredible experience, and I knew that I had enough historical knowledge of the or- organization, and there were enough of the staff and the families and the participants there that knew me, that I already had a level of trust that I could build on.
Yeah. And I absolutely loved rebuilding that culture, and putting systems in place, and looking at the strategy. And I stuck around for three years. It was a three-year contract, but I started talking about coaching with some mentors, and I was coming into the third year, and I just let the board know that I thought that it was time to find somebody new.
For a few reasons, I felt that I had 13 years in this one organization over time. The former CEO had 20 years there. There was a lot of long tenure in the board. I thought it was really good to have some fresh eyes on the place. Yeah. And also, my kids had grown and moved interstate and Oh out of the city, and so I wanted a bit more flexibility to be able to visit them.
Yeah. So then I came into coaching. Wow. So I can see from the threads that coaching is a no-brainer as you come- out of this career because you've got this quite unique background that combines I say commercial.
It's a bit different in for-purpose, but when I say commercial, I mean understanding the financial drivers and loss spaces and all of that. Yeah. Plus the strategy, plus the people's side, and I feel like that's almost the perfect ingredient for someone to be a coach. How did you make the decision? Being in business on your own was the way to go?
'Cause you'd already done it, it was Actually, I was a little bit naive because I came out thinking that I might get enough work as an associate coach that I could just do that. work a few days a week. But then the reality is not uncommon- Yes that it's not gonna happen. No.
And there was a bit of work there, but not enough. And so I soon realized, okay, I'm gonna have to do this, and I thought, "Oh my gosh, I have to do business development." I've just come out of- Yes
decades of fundraising, and grant writing, and getting business for our teams. Oh, yeah. And here I go again. And not only do I not have my wonderful team that I can say, "Look how great they are," I have to actually say- Yeah ... "Look how great I am for you." Yeah.
So that was hard, but I thought, "Put on your CEO hat," and Yeah. Yeah if I can run a service with, like, 80 participants and 50 staff, I can do this. You can do this. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously that has in fact transpired. So tell us about your business now.
What does it look like? So I'm, as you can probably imagine, working with for-purpose organizations and leaders, and do it because I want to help build the capability in the sector, and help the leaders who are trying to make an impact to be able to do it in a sustainable way, a leadership way that doesn't burn them out.
So that's my why, and so instead of having this team that I can push forward, that why is what I- Yeah ... lead with. And I am working with a few CEOs, and executives, and senior leaders in for-purpose organizations, doing either individual coaching or organizational coaching. And so in organizational coaching, I'm looking at the organizational priorities and the context, and what the whole organization or team are working towards, and then coaching the individual with that in mind.
But obviously in coaching, the conversations can go anywhere and everywhere Yes as they do. So yeah, that's my main focus, and what I love the most. I do quite a bit of skills discovery assessments, so I'm accredited with that.
Used to be called Strengths Profile, and that is really looking at- What gives you, what you're really good at and what gives you energy, and the learned skills that we've all become
We've all got skills where we've become really good at what we do, but they really drain us. And so it's working out what are the things that give us energy that we can use instead of some of these learned skills. So that's what I offer as well as workshops around just the foundations of leadership at the moment.
I would like to delve into some senior level workshops. And, oh, facilitation, of course. I was gonna say, and you also facilitate street- strategic- Yes ... planning with boards and leadership teams- Yeah ... that's right. And I've done a bit of consulting too, which is great, and I really, that I enjoy working with an organization closely on a longer-term project.
Yes. A day or two a week. So yeah, so just mix it up. And- So what are the challenges that your clients are facing that you're working with? Is it similar to what we might see in corporate or do you think there are some unique challenges in the for-purpose sector? Oh, I think there's both, definitely.
There's, a lot of the times it's around relational aspects yeah of the role, particularly board-executive relationships. Yeah. And building trust there. There's confident being, like, being clear on goals and yeah. Some of those kind of things I think go across the board.
What I particularly find in for-purpose is that the heart and the care that people bring and, as we spoke about, sometimes the, the stories that they bring with them to the organization can get muddied up with things like commercial realities and- Yeah accountability.
And so it's how do you bring that and still deliver? Got it. Yeah. And also the other thing that I think is possibly unique for not just not-for-profit but also technical roles is coming from that frontline role through to CEO. Similar to what I did. Not necessarily having the academic or the, the great experience and then being a leader.
Yeah. So yeah. And what are your A sneaky way of getting you to say nice things about yourself. What do your clients say they value most about working with you as a coach? Yeah, I think it's that ability to feel safe and feel seen, and to share what they, they not have previously, but also the, like, identifying patterns.
They often say that the questions that I ask, "Oh, that's such a..." Hadn't thought of it that way. So I think just helping them to see something in a different way. Yeah. But first and foremost is that feeling of safety and trust. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine that applies equally at that team or board level as it does- with the individual, right? Because that, that s- ability to build safety in a team is so vital. Critical. Yeah.
When we're doing this work. Yeah. If you don't have that, then you're going to take a long time to get where you need to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I have The funny thing is that I've worked with teams so much in my career.
And but currently I've been working mostly with individuals, but also, as you say, with boards and leadership teams. But I am interested in doing a little bit more work with the teams. So- Yeah ... I'll probably focus a little bit more on that in the back part of this year.
Do you think that the, for the, the nonprofit sector understands the benefits of, leading development in the same way that we might see in corporate?
Or is it, how, where, how do they feel about that work? I think they understand it and they want it, but they, from what I've seen and also experienced, there is a, like around spending money on yourself, investing in yourself is a real problem. Yeah.
And because, if they're getting funding, funders often aren't paying for operational costs. No. It is shifting a little bit- Yeah ... with pay what it takes. There's a whole movement- okay. through, with funders, but there is just this sort of sense in the industry that it's, we should be putting the money to the beneficiaries-
Yeah ... like 100%. And so it is, you have to be very careful where you invest and- Yeah. And that's what we want, right? We want our- Yeah ... not-for-profit organizations to be really conscious of investment. So in some ways that makes it even more important that- that as coaches and for the client that you can talk about the value, I guess- ... or the payback of investment in work. Is, I, do you find that you're talking about ROI a lot? I find that really hard- Yeah ... to pinpoint it, and- It's so hard.
Yeah. So what I've done so far is really tailor my conversations to the specific organization- Yes and what's going on for them. So I feel that I really need to understand enough about the organization to have that conversation and see- where it could make specific value. Yeah. Because 'Cause their measures- Yeah, of success are going to be very individual, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
And their measures- Especially whether it's a service delivery or a, an outcome. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, it is tricky. It's, people keep saying, "Why don't you just go do some work in corporate?" But I just feel like these are my people, and this is where I want to make a difference, and Yeah so I'll just keep plugging away and figuring out.
How to do it. Amazing. Oh and I think you're selling yourself a little bit short there. I think you're not figuring out how to do it. I think you've already had a huge impact- ... on, on a lot of clients. So I want everyone listening to know- Yes ... that Cathy is working with some amazing clients.
Yes, I'm very lucky to. And I love that I've spent so many years, like very locally focused. But it's amazing to be able to work with, in Sydney, it's amazing to be able to work with people over in Perth and in, down in Victoria, et cetera. So love that I can go broad geographically. Yes. Yeah.
I think that is a massive, of benefit. And I think you spoke to, wanting that freedom to travel to see your kids. Have you felt starting your business has allowed you to travel more and be more flexible? Absolutely, yeah. It's been, Do a coaching call if I'm in Brisbane visiting my son, and we are going away camping for a couple of weeks, but I have absolutely cleared my calendar.
I've set my boundaries and- Yeah. I feel like camping- Yeah.camping is a little tricky. Yeah, I know. Yeah. To start- It is a little tricky connection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no, it's definitely more flexible. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about the, the business side of what you've built.
What have you learned through the process, either about yourself or about business? Well, I think going into business, and I know that you've talked about this before, is just really it highlights everything that you haven't worked on yet Isn't it? will come to the front. Isn't it so annoying? I know. I know.
So yeah, getting outside your comfort zone, all of those things. Recognizing the times when you hold back or you don't wanna be visible. All of those things- Yeah ... when you run a business, they will be front and center. You can't hide from them. Yeah. And you have to deal with it. Again, wherever you go, there you are.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think also when you're actually coaching people, you are looking for patterns, holding a mirror up for them, and so you can't help but learn about yourself- Yeah ... inadvertently as you go. And I find that really exciting. I just love- Yeah ... continuing to figure stuff out. Which, which I think is
I firmly believe that starting a business is one of the biggest personal growth activities you'll ever do in your life. We just learn about ourselves every single day. Absolutely ... I think that's- Yeah. And sorry, you were about to say something and I was... Oh, no.
That's okay. I was just gonna say also the other thing about this last sort of 18 months that I've been in business is the all of those leadership practice th- things that I've done in practice over the years. It's been great to come away and find that there's actual frameworks and concepts that are written about these things that I've just- Yeah delivered.
And so now I have more of the language around- what I've been stuck in doing. Right. You learnt it through doing, and now you've the academic backing to- Yeah ... articulate it and formulate it.
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So what have you found most challenging about being in business? Getting comfortable with rejection and follow-up. Yeah. I'm getting better at it mostly.
I mean, you're... from my perspective, Cathy, I think you're amazing. And what I think is incredible about what you do is your consistency, right? Just keep going, learn- Yeah ... grow, keep doing what you gotta do. That's right. And I think the getting those systems in place has been really helpful to overcome those challenges.
And I think one of the challenges also is letting yourself not do something and stop. And- Tell, tell me more about that. Well, actually this week, because I've have been very consistent in my outreach. And I've been sending out, like, 20 messages a week for the last few weeks, and I'm going away for two weeks, and I had it planned to do this week.
Yeah. And I've even wrote it on my accountability thing- on the Slack channel. Yeah. Yeah. But I've decided not to do it this week. Oh, good. Because I've already got a pretty full calendar coming back, and so I'm giving myself a week off. Yeah. But even doing that, it's sitting there. And even though I've crossed it out, I'm still like
I don't know how I- just breaking that pattern. Do you know what I, do you know what I love about that, Cathy? So most people might think I'd be like, "Oh no, do your outreach." What I love is the intentional choice, right? Yeah. The very intentional, deliberate choice.
And I think it's not just because you've got a big week, you're about to go traveling, but also because there is a flow on, which is that we know that, these messages, people are gonna wanna meet with you.
And so we need to really bear in mind that on ramp as well. And so I think you should celebrate making that decision. I think that's fantastic. Thank you. And yeah, because I know that if they get back to me and they really wanna meet while I'm away, I will struggle to say no to that. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep. Like, that would be another challenge for me. Yeah. Even though I probably would say no. Yeah. I would feel that icky factor. Yeah. So yeah, I'm making- and I reckon that genuinely taking a break is really hard when you're in business. I still feel that- 20 years into business. Yeah.
Yeah. But the ability to really turn off and just let things not be perfect for a couple of weeks is really hard. Yeah. Yeah. So the more intentional you can be about that, the more scaffolding you can give yourself, the better. And I think, yeah, making those decisions is exactly what you have to do. And I think just getting comfortable with being visible, which I am better at.
Yes. And I know that I'm putting content out there regularly- Yeah and putting myself out there, and putting selfies and all of that stuff. I'm just like- Yes ... put your CEO hat on, make it a system, and then Yeah ... forget about it. So for someone who is just starting their business and, like Yeah ... the idea of putting a selfie on LinkedIn makes me wanna crawl up in a ball.
Like, what would you say to them? Do it and then forget about it. Yes. Yeah. And, and Nobody else is gonna do it for you, so yeah. And when So you obviously have been through that process.
Was it as bad as you thought it would be? It's funny, I started off doing videos, and that was really hard. And then videos for a while weren't doing as well on LinkedIn.
Yeah. And so I was like, "Sweet, I'll stop that." Now they're doing better again, but I'm like, "Oh." Oh, not mine. I can't make them land. Oh. No. Oh, dear. I've just... sorry, I've forgotten the question now. Oh, yeah. No, it was about, it was like for you- Oh, okay Yeah, it was nerve-wracking, but then it was nice to get in response.
But then Because that's why we do it, isn't it? Yeah. Because it actually gets a better than almost anything else you'll post. Yeah. And I see people that I, that don't don't comment, and then you'll see them out in the real world, and they'll say, "Oh, you've been, doing a lot.
I've seen you doing really well." And yeah. So people are seeing it that don't even engage. Yeah. Yeah. And you've had some posts do very well. Is that right? Some posts on LinkedIn that have gotten a lot of traction? They haven't gone viral like a couple of people that I know- Oh, yeah ... in the group.
But I've had... I feel like they're consistently good. Yeah. And like when you put something personal up, then they'll go... or like a terrible selfie, they'll go much better. Yeah. Holiday selfie. Terri- Yeah, see, I hope you're gonna take lots of photos- Oh, yeah on the trip. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. No, but I'm happy.
I'm happy with the engagement that I'm getting. So what are you most proud of from what you've built in the last 18 months? I'm proud of when I see people... There's something about curiosity that I love. And when I'm coaching people and I hear them, like a few sessions in, come and they say, "And I was just wondering, this person's response," or, "Did this and I wondered, why they were doing it this way."
And you can just hear that shift in thinking. And I just think that curiosity opens up so much- Yes ... for people. Yeah. So that feels every time that I see something like that, or somebody- ... thinking of another way to approach something, that like gives me a little buzz. Yeah. The work that I've been doing, did a facilitation of a couple of days of strategy and leadership in Melbourne.
And that was the first time in my 40-year career, we're gonna say, that I've been flown somewhere to deliver work. Oh, yeah. So that was really exciting, and not only that, but it was a disability-led organization. And so I had to do a lot of work around access and inclusion in terms of delivering the workshop and-
the strategy work. We had people on the board and leadership team who were blind or deaf, or just a broad variety of disabilities. And so I couldn't use flip charts, I couldn't use Post-Its. All the traditional facilitation things I had to throw out the window, and so I was really proud of the- feedback that I got from that and how it felt at the time.
Creating that space to do some really high-level work, but really focusing on what each of the individuals needed, and as a collective, how the room worked through what we needed to work through. So that was, like, a real big win for me, just coming away from that, going, "Wow, I was able to hold that space for people and deliver what we needed to."
It occurs to me, Cathy, that there probably aren't that many coaches out there with that skill set, right? Yeah. That facilitates the skill set around access and inclusion. Yeah. I agree. And so for your clients in that space who need that, particularly at board level, at- leadership level, at team level- that's so important. But I'm also thinking, everyone, if you are a facilitator, get in touch with Cathy on LinkedIn, because she is an amazing person to follow along because she talks about these sorts of things, and there's a lot to learn.
I love that story, and it speaks so much to what's important to you, but also the quality of what you can deliver.
What would you say to, new coaches starting in business? What i- would your advice be to them? I would say be patient. The, everybody says, "Oh, it takes a couple of years," and it really does- Yeah ... take a couple of years to get things up and running, and to put systems in place. Yeah.
That systems are your friend because they take some of that emotional load and that- Yeah ... you were talking about that, that intentionality. It's just there. It's part of the process. I would also say find your people, some cheerleaders, some support- Yeah ... groups that you can work through, like your coaching groups.
That to me, I think I went through so much of my career in the not-for-profit doing a lot myself, figuring out stuff myself, 'cause I didn't have a lot of resources, and I still don't individually have a lot of resources, but- I made the decision to invest- Yeah ... in something that was gonna help me and support me, and it's made all the difference just being able to bounce things off people in the group and yourself, Ellie.
Yeah. And not always have to be on my own and second-guess what I'm doing. And yeah, just having that. So those are some of the things, that systems, that support and also understanding really, like, why you're doing it. I think that really helps to, anytime that you're feeling a bit shaky, you can go back to that.
And yeah, get yourself on the road again. Yeah, because the shakiness is, it's predictable. It will happen. I think I don't want people starting these businesses thinking that it's all gonna be smooth sailing. You're never gonna question it. I wrote a post once on LinkedIn which really resonated, which was that most coaches in any given week will think that this is the best and the worst decision that they've ever made.
Yes. And so- Yeah, that's right ... just to normalize that I think is really important. Yeah. In terms of your participation in the Corporate to Coach Accelerator, what has been most helpful for you in that process? In... I think that, as I said, like not... Just having that ability to run something past other experts.
Yeah. And to know that you're not alone in those, having those down days. Yeah. And- Yeah at any point in time across the whole group, there's people who are celebrating massive wins, teeny little beautiful wins. Or having a hard day. And we're all there for whatever comes. Yeah. Because we're coaches.
Yeah. Yeah. And business owners, right? And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Often all of the above all in one week. But I think that the curriculum, the community, everything has just been brilliant. Absolute best decision I ever made. Oh. Oh, well, it's been delightful to work with you, Cathy. Can we wrap up by me asking you some rapid fire sort of a little fun questions?
Yes. Okay. Yes, you can. If you could coach anyone in the world, who would it be? I did think about this, and I didn't wanna say Bruce Springsteen 'cause it was so obvious to me. Is it? But I just landed on him anyway. I love it. Tell us, just I know this is supposed to be rapid fire, but a little bit more on this.
Rapid fire. I've seen him in concert nine times from when I was- Oh, I did not know this about you ... 15. I love this. I've even met him... he doesn't know me, but I drew a sketch of one of the band members that passed away, and I was in New York, and I handed it to him when he was going into the theater.
So I've gifted him- Aw, lovely something from my heart. Yeah. And I just think that he's incredible, had an incredible life- Yes. Yeah ... and it would be amazing. I think I just wanna sit down next to him and talk to him. I don't know if I actually wanna sketch him.
That seems to be the theme with this question. Yeah. It's like, who do I wanna meet? Yeah, exactly. Oh, incredible. Okay. Thank you. What is a podcast or book that you would recommend to coaches? Actually, I've got.I've brought it down here. Oh, brilliant. This is a book called Setting Boundaries- Oh ... by Dr. Rebecca Ray. Excellent.
And I read this, I was running a workshop, and I read it to support the groups that I was working with.
But then as I was reading it, I was like, "Oh, that's me. That's me. That's me." Yep. And so I think that, it talks about our inner leader, it talks about our protection selves, and it gives some really practical tips on how to set boundaries. And yeah, I think that in business, as a coach, as a human being- Yes you need it. Yeah. Absolutely, we do. Thank you.
Yeah. I reckon there are a lot of people who are gonna love that. And do you have an essential tool or software or something like that makes your business life better? I have the pretty basic tools. Excel- I think is really helpful for tracking because- it closes the loop on that system's work- Yeah ... that I'm doing. And yeah, it, I just enjoy on a Friday afternoon just going and doing my tracking, seeing where I've got- Great reflecting on that.
Use Trello just on my laptop and phone for my LinkedIn ideas. So if I have photos or just an idea, I've got my pillars- Yep set up in there, and I just drop the information into there. So I find that really useful in Fantastic just capturing those ideas on the run. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great idea. I'm gonna recommend that to everyone now. Okay.
Yeah. I use, yeah I capture mine in a just an Apple Note, but I like the idea of a place where you can drop them in those pillars.
Pillars. Yeah. I think that's really That's right, I've got my thought- ... very clever ... promote others, self, promote self, . Yeah. Yeah, all those things. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, I find good. Fantastic. Oh, fantastic. Those are so amazing. Cathy, it has been an absolute delight to have you on.
Obviously thank you I think you're wonderful, and I think you'll know your clients think you're wonderful. And now everyone else will get to know. How are people to follow along or get in touch if they wanna learn more?
Well, as you said, people can find me on LinkedIn under Cathy Hockey. Or I have a website, cathyhockey.com.au, but be warned, you might find a hockey coach if you just Google Cathy Hockey coaching.
So probably go through my LinkedIn. Okay, great. I love that. Yeah. Thanks so much, Cathy. Thank you, Ally.
